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December 8, 2010
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I receieved James Gurney's 'Color and Light' book yesterday. It's the follow up to his very successful 'Imaginative Realism' (which up until now had been firmly at the top of my art book collection – and I have a LOT of art books.

It now looks like 'Color and Light' is going to overtake his previous book and sit proudly at the top of the pile. (It's not really a pile – just a large section of my IKEA bookshelves).

James Gurney keeps a very regularly updated and informative blog at: [link] and if after my rambling review you fancy a copy, there are details there on how to get it.

Like his previous book this is just a goldmine of useful and very well presented information. He's not a digital artist – he works mainly in oils, but on every single page there's something to be learned. It's almost like an art cookbook in a way – Every section introduces something which leaves me thinking "I must try that soon."

He talks about: Types of light (overcast, sunlight, candlelight to name but a few), light and form, types of shadows, a very informative chapter on colour, colour relationships, visual perception* (how all colour and value is relative as our brains take the raw info from our optics nerves and take shortcuts processing it).

That's just a fraction of the info in the book. Even sections that deal directly with real world media, stuff like colour mixing and pigments are interesting and probably useful for a digital as well as traditional artist. I'd recommend this book at it's predecesor to anyone interested in either making art or appreciating how others go about it – and at around 220 pages long it's well worth every penny.

* See the following link for a great example of how visual perception or processed visual information differs dramatically from what our eyes are actually seeing: [link]
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:iconcoreyh2:
~coreyh2 Dec 8, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
I also bought this book yesterday. Only started reading it.

You ever try taking up oil painting?
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:iconjohnmalcolm1970:
~JohnMalcolm1970 Dec 9, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
I bought some oils a while back, had a quick attempt and then left it when something came up (a digital commission). I keep promising myself I'll give them another try, but suspect I might have to see about attending a beginners oil class or something. I'm used to digital and my main frustration with oils (and acrylics for that matter) is colour mixing. I know a little of the theory, but in practice it's very difficult to mix the exact colour I need.

James Gurney's two books supply a whole load of information that I was never given in art classes throught my school years, not at college where drawing and painting was a part of my curriculum. I think in all that time I only heard the word chiaroscuro mentioned once, and even then the definition was a bit vague. Likewise colour theory was a subject hardly touched on.

So, I'd either need basic classes or another James Gurney book, one that deals specifically with the mechanics and nuts and bolts of oil painting... although to be fair I got a couple of video tutorials from Massive Black/ConceptArt which do show you people doing an oil painting from start to finish.
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:iconcoreyh2:
~coreyh2 Dec 9, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
It does seem like color mixing require practice and discipline to learn. I want to learn it at some point. The Painter mixer seems to emulate some of behavior of mixing real paint. I get frustrated with it though. The comic coloring stuff I've learned from is much easier. Its hard to choose the more difficult method. Trying to stay within printable colors is frustrating while using the mixer too.

You might have seen these already. Links about color theory and color mixing.
[link]
[link]
[link]
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:iconjohnmalcolm1970:
~JohnMalcolm1970 Dec 10, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
Any stuff (in Painter 11) I've submitted for print recently I just kept as RBG - and let the magazine do their own colour management thing to get it to printable CMYK. I am fairly used to a RGB>CMYK workflow from work mind you (newspaper production dept)

ArtRage3 seems to have an even better handle on colour mixing than Painter. If 'Real Color Blending' is turned on then it is possible to mix up and number of green from any number of blues and yellows. Try doing that on Painter's Mixer Palette and you get a muddy neutral mess. I hope Painter 12 sorts that out.

Those are some great links :) Bookmarked!
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:iconcoreyh2:
~coreyh2 Dec 10, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
One thing you'll learn in those links and I assume the Gurney book is that as mix colors farther away from each other on the color wheel you lose saturation. All color mixing involves losing saturation which is one of the reasons impressionists tried not to use it. So mixing blue and yellow isn't a good idea. To make a green you'd mix a bluish green and a greenish yellow probably. The real world color wheel is more complex then the computer version. I have no idea what algorithm painter is using. It definitely desaturates heavily when mixing colors. I really have no idea how realistic it is.
[link]

You are lucky to have the newspaper experience. I just know what I've read and looked at using color proofing. I won't understand fully until I actually get something printed.

Many comic colorists work natively CMYK in photoshop. Its a very saturated/bright style of art. Its taking me a while to learn the color range.
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:iconjohnmalcolm1970:
~JohnMalcolm1970 Dec 10, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
Yeah, James Gurney does make the point that many people consider green to be a fourth primary colour. I've also got a book called "Blue and yellow don't make green".

We use Photoshop at work mainly for basic colour correction, adjusting levels, or cutting out of images supplied for adverts. Once of the first things I do when working that way is hit CTRL+Y to turn on the soft proofing. It's a very useful tool, expecially when trying to explain to someone from advertising why they can't have fluorescent bright green or even bright green in a client's advert. Conversion to CMYK happens at the end of our workflow.

ArtRage just seems to handle virtual paint mixing a bit better than Painter... could be something to do with the fact that Painter often insists on adding the background into the mix also (white for example) ----> [link]
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:iconcoreyh2:
~coreyh2 Dec 10, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
ArtRage looks like its keeping much more saturation. I'm not sure how realistic that actually is. One thing you can try with the painter mixer is adding a small drop of one color in the larger area of another and then mixing. If you are using the mixer it doesn't use the background.

I mostly gave up on the version of artrage I have. The comic coloring style I'm using involves making selections. Artrage 2 only had a weird interface for stencils. I need all the standard selection tools to work.

You'd probably be really good at comic coloring. You know the color range and you know how to airbrush. Digital comic coloring is in that style.

You get to the Pre-mixing chapter of "Light and Color" yet? Its pretty amazing what is possible with a limited palette. I'm going to have to see how much of it is possible in painter.
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:iconjohnmalcolm1970:
~JohnMalcolm1970 Dec 11, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
I think I'm just keen at the moment to see what happens if I limit myself to a range of "tube" colours, and rely on mixing those to get all the colours needed for a digital painting (Artrage or Painter) - I think the result would be potentially more harmonious than one created using the standard colour pickers/wheels.

I'm hoping that Painter 12 brings more to the table than simply more tools for photo-painting.

I love using all 3 programs to be honest - they all have their strong and weak points, but they are nice to use in combination - I'd like to see their programmers learn from the other applications without them all becoming too samey.

Photoshop's fairly recent feature of on-the-fly canvas rotation for example is a good example of Adobe picking up something from another app. Painter had it first, but now it's implementation - having to hold down 2 keys seems clumsy when Photoshop allows you to do it with one (and that one being spring-loaded - paint, hold down R, rotate, leave go of R and straight back to the brush tool)
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(2 Replies)
:iconairaquila:
~airaquila Dec 8, 2010  Student General Artist
I've been waiting for the release of it since August and now that I check my favorite bookstore, it's already sold out! Harghrhgrh! But I'm very glad to hear that it is worth the wait c;
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:iconjohnmalcolm1970:
~JohnMalcolm1970 Dec 8, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
it's better than I imagined... which is pretty damn good
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